On
the Stipend, 2: discussion
BJ:
“Paid for how much?
Enough for the jobless to live on, with a little bit more for small
luxuries.”
Let’s just admit defeat, and recognize that the jobs
are never coming back.
“A stipend stabilizes society by giving everyone a
stake in the system.”
Everyone except for the taxpayers.
“... this amounts to plutocracy insurance; buying off
the poor to quash rebellion.”
A stipend like that will not calm down the
masses. Here’s why.
“Some radicals say, ‘We do not propose to abolish
wealth. We say, abolish poverty.’ The fact is you cannot abolish poverty
without abolishing wealth. For wealth is
relative. One can be sensible of it only
in contrast with poverty. What is
poverty? What is wealth? There is no absolute measure. Only contrast. In that hut over there the people seem
wretchedly poor. That is because
habitations have improved. Not long ago,
historically speaking, the royal family would have lived in a hut like
that. The king himself. The poor now have more than the rich had a
few generations ago, more of everything to eat and wear and enjoy. They are none the less torn by envy because
others have more.” -- from “Harangue” by Garet Garrett
PMA:
That’s not defeat. That’s victory over the curse of
Adam.
Of course we are approaching an economics of
superfluity; it has been visible for a century.
http://zielonygrzyb.wordpress.com/2013/07/18/economic-possibilities-for-keyness-grandchildren/
NH:
PMA; seconded about defeating the curse of Adam.
Robots are how industrial man proposes to achieve hunter-gatherer man’s liberty
along with farmer man’s security.
But also agreed that envy and ambition will remain,
despite everyone having full bellies. The natural strife of society will not
decrease with the abolition of absolute poverty. Man is born to trouble, sure
as sparks flying upwards. Relative rich and relative poor will remain; in fact
I am counting on them remaining, for then competition and innovation will also
remain.
If you get a pet rock, then that does decrease the
value of my pet rock; but your not going hungry does not decrease the value of
my not going hungry. So not all wealth is relative.
BJ; what you denounce is state-based welfare; you
don’t have to pay for it, but there’s only one choice. What I propose is a
market-based stipend; each gets a sum to spend as they wish. If we are to do a
Keynesian counter-cyclic stimulus at all, then the poorest are the best
dispensers of the stimulus money; they’ll spend it all, as efficiently as
possible, on what they need most. Thus the economy gets going, in a direction
closest approximating filling real needs, for the poorest are the ones most
uncomfortably aware of real needs.
Funding the stipend? Nontrivial! Doing it right? (i.e.
enough to live on, phases out slowly enough for work to pay) Also nontrivial!
But I submit that in a sense all of civilization is an immense stipend.
Civilization dispenses certain benefits to all, rich or poor, worthy or
unworthy, free of charge or scrutiny. That’s the point of civilization.
Oh and one more thing; a point of nomenclature. In the
first stipend essay, I described the stipend-receivers (i.e. the poorest) as
being “paid to consume”, and thus as “job creators”. This is factually
accurate; consumers _are_ the job creators, by definition; they are the ones
whom the jobs are done for. Now, there also exists another economic class, also
called “job creators”; but this is an Orwellian reversal, for the CEOs thus
described make their fortune by _destroying_ jobs, by automation, outsourcing
and other tactics. Their drive for efficiency increases output, so they do have
a role; but that role should not be mis-stated. They are job destroyers; that
is their job; one which lately they have done very, very well.
BJ:
The problem is that the stipends AREN’T free, whether
they are “invade Iraq” “goodies” or “Publik Skoolz” ”goodies” and as you’ve
probably figured from my sarcasm, there’s a serious argument as to whether
they’re valued anywhere close to the cost.
They may even be valued NEGATIVELY.
So if a person’s money is stolen for a Public Schooling for their kid,
and they DON’T value the public
schooling anywhere NEAR what it cost them in taxes, or even at all, or they
would even pay to avoid it, even if their kid DIDN’T go to school at all, then
the money they’re spending on private schools may be like the money we have to
spend on guns when Bill Clinton gives us “night basketball” or some other
nonsense. That sort of “free market
Keynesianism” you’re discussing sounds more like Disaster Capitalism to me.
LF:
Hmmmm. I’ve
been a Welfare worker and I’ve been a Welfare client (“I’ve looked at Welfare
from both sides now...”), and I can tell you from my own observation that
people on a stipend do not cease being productive if they have any health at
all. I’ve seen old Black grannies save
up their Welfare money to buy yarn and needles, knit everything from blankets
to dresses, and sell the same for a profit at a yard-sale. I’ve seen Welfare unemployeds fighting for
places in line to sign up for factory jobs.
I’ve seen others take up underground and illegal jobs -- numbers-running,
drug-selling, whoring -- to make extra bucks.
I’ve seen ADC mothers buy seed and plant backyard gardens to improve
their children’s diets, and then swap the excess with neighbors. In my own case, Rasty and I are living on
Social Security, and doing our damndest to plant a fruit-orchard. What all these examples have shown me is that
being on a guaranteed stipend does not necessarily create dependency, and
certainly doesn’t stop people from being productive.
As an Anarchist, I’d have to say that, when
dismantling a government, we should leave the stipend for the poor to the very
last. Given a free and intelligent
society, there would be few enough really poor people that the “stipend” could
be maintained by private (which includes group, don’t forget) charity.